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People or the nation

December 7, 2009

There are few things running through my mind these days. I want to write about them. I don’t Β know the way I think is right or not. This is the first of them. Please give your opinions.

When I read about Tamil tigers in Srilanka, Fidel Castro of Cuba in 1960 or Maoists in Nepal or in our own West Bengal there is common link between them. The government is ineffective or not providing the necessities, required facilities and rights to particular section of people. According to my opinion, a movement by the rebels will not be successful without people’s support. And people won’t give their support madly. They will give it only when they are pushed to the corner and they believe that the current government will not provide anything to them.

Most of the people are lazy and ready give the responsibility to others to govern them. I think thats the one happening in case of human history from the monarchy to democracy. And the way I see it, all those were just for the people and by the people. So I think, if the people were not satisfied with the ruler who is ruling them they have the right to rebel and go free and no people will fight against somebody doing good to them.

Lets the take the case of our country, in particular Maoists in West Bengal, the communists were ruling the state for almost 40 years. And they are now screaming about Maoists. The way they handled the farmers in Singur didn’t done any good and they have no reason to expect the people to support their government. When an alternative comes they will opt for that. The same applies to naxals also. Most of them were frustrated young minds of our own nation who tasted the bitterness of this land.

If I think I am right by supporting our nation as it has given lot to me from food to shelter to education, then the people who are deprived of it has the reason and also have the right to go against the same nation. There is also other thing which keeps coming to my thought. If states within nation are created for better governance and administration, then I believe nations also created in the world for the same purpose. According to me the nation and state are just illusions. World is the only thing which is real. And the same world belongs to all the people.

I have few questions which are confusing and I have my answer with the points I have said above:

Who is bigger? People or the nation??

I will certainly say that its the people. Nation is made of people and if people is not there, there is nothing called nation.

Did the people have the right to walk away from their nation if they are discriminated or they have to stay back stating that its an unpatriotic thing to do?

There is nothing free in this world except the air. And if a nation expects patriotism from its people then it must be loyal and do the things which is expected from it.

Please let me know your answers for the above the questions and tell me whether I am right or wrong.

22 Comments leave one →
  1. December 7, 2009 3:21 am


    kanagu: YAY!!! πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€

    • December 7, 2009 3:28 am

      Tough questions there!!
      People or nation: Agreed…its people who make a nation. But what identity/standing do people have without that great nation to back them up?

      kanagu: What is an identity?? It’s a one thing we give it to ourselves.. and are we satisfied with the identity as a Indian?? we go deeper and deeper and have many identities within it… so which one is true??? even if nation is not there we will live with one or another…

      Right to walk away: Why not? Nothing unpatriotic about it. Patriotism is not about ‘suffering’ but about ‘changing for the better’. IMHO, a person who walks away and makes a better life for himself/sends money back home for his family is definitely superior to someone who stays back and wallows in self-pity , not trying to change anything.

      kanagu: true Pal…

      You are absolutely right in what you said about people being pushed BEYOND their boundaries. Why else would they support such movements.

      Good post, K!

      kanagu: Thank you πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  2. December 7, 2009 7:04 am

    I agree with all your points…Revolutions happen because people want change – unfortunately, even revolutionary governments don’t provide what people want…Power corrupts…Also, I don’t believe in violence so even though I can understand why the Maoists have risen, I can’t understand why they have taken up arms…

    kanagu: True bones… power corrupts… however noble the cause at last they are succumbed to the greedy of power… but if you see the history many revolution were done in a violent way.. very few were achieved thru non-violence… even when Gandhiji was here Nethaji also fought in different way… I think not many believe that non-violence can bring change…

  3. December 7, 2009 10:21 am

    Kanagu…yennappa idellaam…theeviravaadi aagi maararadukku edaavadu plan irukkaaa??? soll soll !! πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€

    kanagu: LOL πŸ˜† surely I don’t have guts to become like that one πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€
    you are right Kanagu, people are more important than the nation ! But the ones who govern us are interested only in themselves and do not care a damn about the nation or its people. When the mumbai blast happened, the whole country rose againts the terrorists. Similarly, the entire nation should rise one day against all those corrupt officials on the top. When a few create a stir, they are immediately branded with names like naxalites.

    kanagu: yup.. its needs a whole nation fight against those corruption but I am also afraid that the one who claims power after that will also be get corrupted… because human mind is like that,…. 😦

  4. Vijay permalink
    December 7, 2009 10:24 am

    No buddy. Nation is above people. Just because a certain segment of people want to live in the way they want to, the system can’t bend in their way. If the Naxals Maoists want to change the system they should participate in the mainstream politics, build party and fight against the system. What LTTE, Fidel Castro, Maoists have shown the world is that, they have started to war against the system, since they haven’t got benefitted from the system. Hence they lose faith. Organisations like Maoists, Naxalisms etc have been created by Government apathy towards them. But taking to arms is just the solution. They should mobilise public opinion of the people who have been affected by the system and seek solutions in a peaceful and democratic manner.

    kanagu: Anna.. what I am saying is, all the people must get equal oppurtunity… everybody has one life and everybody should have the right and facility to live it to the fullest… we know how doomed the life of tribal peoples are…. they shouldn’t suffer for some other man’s mistake… they should have the right to walk away and live the life they want.. and I didn’t supported Maoists activities.. I am just pointing out why people are attracted towards them…

  5. December 7, 2009 11:01 am

    i think nation is more important than the nation… if nation is there, people will survive but not vise versa!

    kanagu: What if nation is corrupted??? and are all the people in our country or in the world are provided with equal oppurtunities???

  6. December 7, 2009 12:18 pm

    Kanagu, it is true that when people are poor and have no means to feed themselves they look for other means. There is Kasab too, who became what he was because he was poor. However I firmly believe that we have choices all of us. There are some people who are weak, and they succumb to temptation. Did you know that most people in Tihar jail are not the poor? So, it is a question of weakness of character. I know people who slave 24 hours a day and barely manage to feed their family but they will not do take to violence or crime. I admire such people. But I do agree that with development a few good people who take the wrong path will be saved. Not all though.There will always be criminals in the society.

    kanagu: Yes Nita…. me too admire such people and its about choices… but a government is one which has to create equal oppurtunities for all its citizens to live and then its upto the people whether to use them and live better or not… but what we are seeing now is really partial and people won’t tolerate it after one point..

    and criminal will always be there… because there will be few who can’t be satisfied by any means and also it also depends on in which environment he grows up…

  7. December 7, 2009 12:20 pm

    Yes, inefficient govts help the other rebel groups to survive !!!! They dont realise the future of the land, if such rebel groups thrive. They always feel that their tenure is only 5 years – let us make advantage of the situation and rob the land !!!! Its the ppl who suffer all the time.

    Ppl are certainly bigger than the nation !!! Even our democracy is for the ppl, by the ppl !!!!

    kanagu: Politics has been flooded with crores of rupees that makes them really greedy… power really corrupts… 😐 😐

  8. December 7, 2009 1:25 pm

    Poverty does not make everyone violent and take terrorism as a solution. But people who are never allowed to come up in life and have no visible option to progress in their lives, think that they have nothing to lose and get tempted to join the wrong forces. Here, the government is also the culprit. As you said, they just think about themselves to grab votes for their own future. They offer freebees to poor people which is not important to survive, like Karunanidhi’s TV and Gas cylinder scheme. They offer this to the poor so that their middlemen or their party cadres can make money in return they will work for their party’s survival. Where does the nation come here? Yes, the nation is made up of people and our nation has got people who have got some conscience even now and we are surviving. Like how the terrorism had died in Punjab, we will hope that others also will die in time, without much destructions.

    Kasab’s family did not get any benefits because he joined the terrorist forces. He took a wrong decision and people should take lessons from his case.

    kanagu: Yes government is a culprit and also what I am trying to say is if a group of people or a people who belong to a region is deprived of oppurtunities means there will be a furstration among them and they like to vent out it.. and when a movement comes there with an agenda of solving their problems, people won’t think that its violence or not or whether it is right or not… they like to give a go at it and try to yearn their rights..

    and for Karunanidhi’s govt’s plans.. its one of the worst thing can happen… making the people fool with freebies and people felling to the trap thinking their taxes are coming back to them… and they are not worried about the common amenities like well-laid roads, water or any other thing…

  9. December 7, 2009 1:49 pm

    Fantastic Post !

    kanagu: Thanks Bhai!! πŸ™‚

  10. December 7, 2009 2:01 pm

    Kanagu wonderfully written and i agree to what u have written.

    kanagu: Thanks akka πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚
    We should think what we gave to the nation rather than thinking what nation gave to us.It is we who form a nation,people make the nation great.

    kanagu: But then.. we can think like that.. how about the people who are not even able to get proper meal or facilities… how their thought process will be… they will think that their life is doomed because of the government and how they will like this land???
    Our indian team made our country proud by becoming number one test team in the world.

    kanagu: I am really happy about that akka… πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  11. December 7, 2009 4:09 pm

    Kanagu, this is certainly a thought-provoking post!

    kanagu: Thanks Manju πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚
    You have mentioned the Communists in West Bengal.

    The Communists have become accustomed to strikes, go-slows, agitations, and digging up roads at the slightest pretext. These things are very easy to do.

    What is NOT EASY is to participate in the development process in a constructive way. But having become used to violent means, they find it difficult to act in any other way.

    You are correct in saying that the government should look out for its people. And it is also true that the welfare of the North-east states has been neglected.

    But if the government is corrupt or inefficient, it should be changed THROUGH THE BALLOT, not by violent means.

    At least that is what I think.

    kanagu: The first reaction of our anger is violence only… so when the people are not treated properly means they are not even given proper education… without proper education how can they think and act… they won’t worry about the way and they will do anything as their mind is disturbed…

  12. December 7, 2009 5:18 pm

    kanagu machi what happened 2 U πŸ™„ ….i guess we have to meet soon…you need my inputs πŸ˜‰

    kanagu: LOL machi… πŸ˜† plan it before the schedule.. I am really comfortable πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€
    Kanagu what to say , I’m against all these extremists .Initially they will be having some aim but later they will loose it and make the civilians scape goat…All these cuban,srilankan , Afgani , pak peoples are suffering a lot coz of these psychos.maoists,jihadis , LTTs , coz of all these psychos civilians are affected not any government

    The protest , strikes should be there. but it it should not be at the cost of common man’s peace and life

    kanagu: Machi.. do you think that they wouldn’t have done any strikes or protest??? no man likes to kill anybody…. even to beat a man needs a lots of guts… so I am sure they won’t take it willingly.. they would have took that in their hand without any other way to go…
    and Cuba is far better compared to their previous dictatorship rule by Batista… who acted according to the willing of the America…. Except Jihadis everybody has the people support because they fought for the people atleast they have created illusion…
    at times we have to take law in our hand if it goes out of control.. and if government provides nothing to its people I am really fine with throwing it out by any means…

    I want to write about them. I don’t … that is the one advantage of blogging kanagu …you can express what you feel.agreeing / disagreeing with your views are a second thing…between nicely written dude πŸ™‚

    kanagu: Yes.. thats the best part about blogging and thanks machi πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  13. December 7, 2009 8:11 pm

    Most of us are bothered about “Self” selflessness is missing in today’s world and thats the very reason Nation has become smaller!!!

    As far as walking away from a nation is concerned, why not??? If ppl aren’t getting what they deserve they have all the rights to choose a better life!!! But is violence a solution nah!!! I don’t think so!

    kanagu: Yes… but Smita I don’t know how many non-viloent protests bore fruit…. Except the case of India and South Africa every nation’s freedom is attained after shedding lots of blood…

  14. Harini permalink
    December 7, 2009 10:34 pm

    Its true that a nations inability to provide people with what they need is what makes them rebels. But being rebel is one thing and being a criminal is another. There are many poor people around the world who slog day in and day out to provide food to their families. And sometimes its not just the inability of the nation but its inability of our own. You cant always justify people’s (maoists, naxals) actions by saying that nation made them what they are… true that nation had a hand but its the choice they made. They have chosen a different road rather than choosing a road of hard work and struggle like some people do.

    kanagu: First of all, welcome here Harini πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚
    According to the concept of Globalization, our government working towards in a way the richer become richer and poorer becomes poorer… so just because a person born in a poor family he/she has to slog in and slog out… are they don’t want to live a normal life… is there enough oppurtunities for them as everybody gets??? government must be fair to its all people…
    In case of maoists and any rebel group, mainly they are formed due to government’s inefficiency.. because not every person like to take arm in his/her hand…

    • December 10, 2009 7:31 pm

      Agreed that in India richer are getting richer and poorer are getting poorer. My grand Pa used to add that middle class people like us are also getting poorer and in a way its true. I know that the Indian Government isnt great , I would be the 1st to point out that everything is wrong with our government. All I am saying that doesnt justify picking up arms and causing chaos in people’s lives.

      kanagu: What I think is, the people are pushed to extreme in that case so they picked up the arms… I am also against the violence but when we get angry our first reaction is violence.. isn’t it?? sometimes we spit out the words.. sometimes we give a punch or slap… this is a extreme case.. I guess…

  15. December 8, 2009 11:36 am

    I don’t know if one can cross over to another country.West Bengal is an ideal example that you have quoted. It is the responsibility of each state/country to provide basic infrastructure to the citizens.Talking of naxals/WB-the problem seems to be lack of land reforms and the state must accept the missing link and must complete the responsibility soonest possible.

    kanagu: Yes sir… its the responsibilty of the state and center to provide required facilities for every citizen and its their mistake if Maoists/Naxals keeps growing in their state…

  16. December 8, 2009 3:53 pm

    Wonderful post Kanagu!

    kanagu: Thanks Swaram πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚
    I do think patriotism hs got nothing to do with staying back in one’s own country .. to each his own! R all the ppl staying here working towards the betterment of the country? Does just staying here make them a patriot?

    kanagu: true Swaram… they are many who lives in this country who are not worthy… 😦 😦
    And eh, the world is one and all the geographical boundaries are for ease of operation. It hurts to see people quarrel over boundaries 😦 Hyderabad hd come to a stand-still, well almost for the past few days, thanks to the Telangana issue. Do we really need it? Its we who are suffering finally. All shops were shut down and we hd to go hunting even if we wanted a packet of sugar!

    kanagu: In this case Swaram, I think the central government is not taking any stern decision on whether they going to create a state or not… they are keeping mom all the time and looking towards the Sonia… if a state is smaller it will be easier to govern.. but they have to keep the people’s decision in the mind…
    Something hs gone wrong in the way people have been provided for which had got them to turn into rebels! But, I also agree there are a few pranksters who derive sadistic pleasure in supporting such movements. I hv seen this with my own eyes. The famous Kannada actor Dr.Rajkumar died a natural death! Whose mistake was it that stones were hurled @, buildings burnt and a few people were even stabbed to death! Character plays a major role too! Such ppl wait for an opportunity to pelt stones and be happy with destruction 😦 Sad but true 😦

    kanagu: of all the thing one I really hate is worshipping actors and what makes me really angry is hurling those stones and making the people to pay for it… if they are really angry about his death mean they are free to break their window panes and burn their home.. and not others…. I like to slap one if I see… its really ridiculous…. 😑

  17. December 8, 2009 6:42 pm

    Finally I am backkkkk on ur blog….I am soo glad to read ur work again….and I still owe u a proof read dont I?

    kanagu: Wow.. great see you back here Sahaja.. welcome back πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚
    and yeah… take your own time… I know you are busy… πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

    Ohh I completely agree with you on the first line of second para…..And comparing it with UK, I feel,Indians, especially are very much like that – easy to give responsibility to govern them!

    kanagu: Not only India.. it happens everywhere.. people always expects somebody to kick start the things.. aren’t they???
    That is major root cause for everything in India,n thats because of lack of education! Education I say is proper education not degrees but a deep understanding and a open atmosphere in society which we are very far from…..but this is not possible…..young people can do it!!

    kanagu: Yes Sahaja… really true and if all the youngsters take a plunge to educate atleast one child we will have a bright nation… superbly said πŸ™‚
    People should be made aware of what their rights and responsibilities for electing government…..I was surprised the other day reading that India is famous abroad for democracy principles….where do we see democracy?? Democracy is for the people, by the people and to the people isnt it? We change meaning of PEOPLE as we like depending on what we want
    At the time of election – PEOPLE means actual people….aam janta as we say
    During the election – PEOPLE means people bought out by politicians
    After the election – PEOPLE means POLITICIANS….

    kanagu: When I read that India is famous for its democracy the next thing come to my mind is, are other nations governement are really worse than us??? πŸ˜€ πŸ˜€
    and the thing you have quoted is CLASSIC… well said…. but have you noticed.. the elections are happening in our country in one part or other everytime πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

    What we need to change is this! This notion of people being governed to be different from people governing…..the right for a common man to raise his voice against things and give his opinion on certain things….Ofcourse, this means, that man should be eligible enough to speak sensible stuff…..and this seems to be a radical change but we can bring it about slowly and steadily…..YOUTH should be the biggest role player…..

    kanagu: yes Sahaja… people must voice against the system.. but the system comprised of goons and mostly they are at the top… I want to file a report or put a RTI query regrading the road condition in my locality… but the whole area is full of thugs.. I am really feared about that…. 😦 😦 anyway I will make it a point to ask….
    Phew that was a loooong comment πŸ™‚ probably I should be making it a post πŸ™‚

    kanagu: yeah… and please make a post on this.. it will be really useful … πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚
    btw u are tagged πŸ™‚

    kanagu: Thank you Sahaja… I am done and going to post… πŸ™‚

  18. December 9, 2009 9:57 am

    What a super post!!
    What serious questions!
    Will be back to answer them after giving each one some serious thought!

    kanagu: Thanks Pixie.. πŸ™‚
    waiting for your answers… πŸ™‚

  19. December 9, 2009 10:40 am

    Definitely the people. Nation is just an arbitrary area on a map with a piece of cloth and sheet of metal as a symbol. Its the people that make the nation. Rather the nation is just the people.

    kanagu: Thats what me too thought Odzer… its really nice to see you back here πŸ™‚ πŸ™‚

  20. December 13, 2009 10:38 pm

    I don’t understand why people don’t think at the time of voting!

    Destination Infinity

    kanagu: hmmm… may they think that what’s the use in voting and what their one vote going to do… 😐 😐

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